It came to my attention recently, through Colleen at Cheap Wine and Cookies, that the author of the best-selling book and website The Happy Herbivore said that she’s “not ‘vegan’ anymore“. In a terrible turn of events, a conversation about honey turned into a bashing of epic proportions, where vegans vilified Lindsay’s and her sister’s stances on honey: “You shouldn’t be calling yourself vegan whilst partaking of honey. Epic fail” (emphasis mine), and that her sister eating honey for her health is merely an “excuse”, “no different than omnivores and their ‘excuses’”.
You all remember when I went on a month-long vegan experiment, during which I experienced some amazing health benefits and discovered that eating vegan isn’t as difficult as I thought it would be. I did err a couple times (actually, involving honey, go figure! Damn that honey wheat bread!), but it overall wasn’t that bad. It’s actually something I’ve been considering doing again, this time for a longer haul, because of the benefits.
However, even if I wanted to go to an entirely animal-free diet, I don’t think I’d ever call myself vegan. My problem isn’t entirely with the label — after all, if you’re going to apply one to yourself, they may as well have meaning. My problem is with those who apply that label to themselves… then make others who use the title and either slip up or have a different philosophy as to what “counts” and what “doesn’t” as “not good enough” or “not a real [whatever].”
Or calling these differences in philosophy an “epic fail.”
I actually find it hilarious that, as inclusive as diehard vegans claim vegetarianism is, vegans have damn near tried their best to make veganism exclusive to the point where it’s impossible to get everything “right”, haven’t they? A diet that promotes good health, good food, and good intentions should be readily available to everyone, not a super seekrit and speshul “membership” that requires strict adherence or you’re not “good enough”.
This is not to say that all vegans feel this way. I have actually had excellent, informative discourse with vegans who are incredibly open to the attempts that people make to better themselves and live more compassionately; to them, a person taking any step in the right direction is a step for the entire world, and they’re to be praised for that effort.
I’m talking about the vegans who take pride in beating the will out of people to even want to make those right steps, the ones who find it in themselves to be so compassionate to all animals but their own species. It never failed to surprise me, the way they spend their time attacking those who are trying to make those steps rather than educating those who are the furthest things from vegan into making better dietary and lifestyle choices.
There’s nothing wrong with trying to guide people down a better path; I mean, I’ve seen this change in my own husband. While he’s no vegan (ha!), he has made great strides to eat more compassionately, consider what he eats before actually doing so, and even eating vegetarian with me on a fairly regular basis.
He still eats meat, this is true, and I don’t think he’ll ever not eat meat. However, that doesn’t bother me at all. In fact, I consider every meatless meal we have together to be one more meal that celebrates the life of an animal and our own health, especially his.
Every single meatless meal matters.
It’s actually why I love the idea behind Meatless Mondays. That project isn’t about converting people entirely to meatless diets (though that’d be nice!), but to encourage everyone to take out one day to make a change and realize that it’s not difficult. I’ve seen many people try Meatless Monday and have been not only impressed, but bewildered by how easy it is!
I consider myself a leader by example. I don’t shove veg*n philosophy down anyone’s throat, I don’t vilify others for eating a plate of chicken wings, I don’t remind people what that steak does to their arterial health. Rather, I eat well and I eat good, and I show others that they can eat good without sacrificing anything! After all, one of the points of this blog is to share such yummy recipes with all of you! Leading by example. 
That, in my experience, has worked and will continue to work far better than any other method I could even fathom trying. It’s so much easier and much more effective to show others how it can be done by living a positive example than it is to try and “educate” them. And even easier than forcing them to convert.
I really do hope that there will come a day when those who are on the same side — the side of wanting to do better by our world, our animals, and ourselves — guide others along the same path, or even encourage them to make small changes for that greater good. It does no one any good at all to engage in some of the backbiting, chiding, and vilifying that was shown on Lindsay’s blog, but it does everyone good if we all make changes towards a more positive life and show others that they can do the same.
(BTW, I consider my blog a safe and sacred space for anyone and everyone, for any and every topic. Polite discourse is encouraged, but intolerance will not be, well… tolerated!)
I’m not a Vegan or Vegetarian but I totally agree with your stance on this issue. (I eat probably half my meals a week meatless but it’s not a conscious choice not to eat meat, rather those meals I happen to like and don’t have meat in them – like mac and cheese and rice and beans, salsa, etc). If someone wants to make strides to be a Vegan and someone berates them for not being 100% perfect, that’s totally the wrong approach. Nevermind that they are 98% perfect, if they’re not doing it fully then why bother seems to be the attitude, and that’s wrong.
What’s the deal with honey, though? I haven’t researched Veganism so I’m not sure – is it just because bees make it? If so, do Vegans not eat ANYTHING made by animals? So, what, like only wheat and fruits and veggies? No milk or anything like that? What is the harm to animals or the environment or to yourself by drinking milk, for example? (I’m not arguing, I’m asking the question because I’m curious).
I’m actually glad you asked! I’ll try my best from a non-vegan perspective.
It’s a point of contention, but yes, the assertion is that honey is an animal (insect) byproduct. As a general rule, vegans don’t eat any animal byproducts or those things that have had animal byproducts in their production: Things like non-vegan white sugar, wines and beers distilled with non-vegan ingredients, and so forth.
The harm to animals comes from the constant need for them to produce the milk, eggs, honey, etc. from which vegans abstain. To keep a cow milking all the time, for example, that cow has to either be kept pregnant or has to be fooled into the body thinking it’s pregnant. That can cause a lot of harm to the animal, like calcium and other nutrients leaching from their bones and the constant toll that being pregnant has on the body.
And as far as the environment is concerned, the cost of keeping livestock (either for butchering or milking or both) is astronomical: To “grow” an animal, we use a gallon of gas per pound of meat, up to eighty percent of our grain production goes towards feeding, the waste they produce is ridiculous at 25 lbs per day, 70% of water used in several western states waters cattle, and the clearing away of land for cattle raising is one contributing factor to the Amazon’s demise, among other reasons. In short, there’d be a lot of pretty much everything to go around if we were all vegan.
Milk’s effects is actually something I covered once before. Since that was kind of a long entry that I don’t want to rehash, lol, you can check it out there.
So yep, there you go! I fully agree with you, obviously, about making strides and not getting anyone down for that 2% or whatever. Here’s to hoping for a little more tolerance in a group that really should be promoting as much!
I think one of my biggest issues with veganism, aside from what you pointed out, Steph, is that abstaining from all animal by-products will not, in the long run, make things better.
Maybe it’s because I grew up in a place where people farm for their livelihood, but I feel that if you object to the conditions animals are placed under to produce these products, you should try to help by supporting people who do things the “right” way. For instance, I can completely get behind people having problems with eggs (even though, for the record, chickens are evil creatures). Instead of refusing to eat all eggs, people would be better off buying eggs from small-town farmers who take eggs from their chickens (who live in the lap of chicken luxury). Believe me, those chickens live wonderful lives.
Refusing to eat eggs will not change the industry. But making humane egg-harvesting more profitable will encourage growth in that area, and eventually shift the industry as a whole.
tl;dr: don’t stop eating animal by-products. Stop eating inhumanely acquired animal by-products.
I like that point of view – we haven’t swapped yet (sheepishly, out of convenience and cost) but I keep pushing Brad to either by local farm fresh eggs or to get some chickens. One of my coworkers has chickens and they get plenty of eggs from them. And they’ve got a huge area to roam around in and are treated really well. But owning your own chickens and eating their eggs whenever they lay is not Vegan, right? Is there an explanation for why they couldn’t eat THOSE eggs?
Haha, it’s still eating eggs. IDK, that’s kind of where I draw my own personal line as to what’s acceptable and what’s not (and obviously, that line can and WILL be different for others). I would absolutely LOVE to start getting fresh, local eggs and milk for home. Currently, my reasons are the same as yours… price plus availability. Oh, and I just don’t use either of those ingredients often enough.
However, once we have kids, I’m going to make that priority.
Anyway, this is a great discussion! I love where it’s going.
While I may have different ideas about food than you do Steph (and I do), I totally agree that attacking people and essentially bullying them, is no way to get them to have a meeting of the minds with your (generic your, not you your) ideals. There is never a reason to attack the way someone is living their life in a cruel and hurtful way no matter how they chose to label themselves. Especially when on the internet (and even in “real life”) it is impossible to know all the circumstances that cause a person to make the choices they do. If a person needs to disagree with another person, do it civilly! I love the first part of your post for this, especially the part about not wanting the vegan label (if you should eventually decide to take up that lifestyle) if it’s going to make you out to be one of those crazy militant people.
And this is one (of many) thing(s) I love about you, SB. Because you think so differently from me in many ways, but we’re respectful towards each other and know that we’re doing what’s best for ourselves. <3
Absolutely. I would love if there could be more discourse between veg*ns and omnis, and even vegans and vegetarians, that was respectful and open minded. I can see that issues abound when you consider food and diet to be so much more than “food” and “diet” — each and both together pervade our cultures, our spiritualities, our lives. So to think that it’d be an easy conversation is trite.
But there’s nothing wrong with trying; in fact, if there was a bit more trying and a lot less snobbery about the whole thing, we might actually get somewhere! Here’s to hoping that we can expect more of that in the future…
I agree with most of what you said, but I’m not sure if being outspoken about veganism is necessarily a bad thing. Sure, you shouldn’t bash people over the head with it, but I believe if we are to reduce animal exploitation and raise awareness, we have to speak out as much as we can. The trick is doing so in a warm, rational and respectful manner… the latter part being the most difficult, as respecting people’s dietary choices is, lets face it, precisely what veg*ism is not about. We’re trying to convince people to change their eating habits. That’s a pretty massive demand. But being silent and only relying on passive influence is not enough, I think. In my everyday activism, I personally strive to take after the likes of Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King or Ghandi… peaceful, but resilient.
Yes, I thoroughly agree. Like I said above, food and diet are so much more than that, so it’s not a surprise that discussing such things (especially when the intent is to challenge the way one eats and/or sees food) is going to get passionate. But there can be kindness and respect in that passion!
I’m not at all saying that talking about veganism is a bad thing. In fact, I think it needs to be done more in order to shed more light on what it actually is.
What is a bad thing is when that “talking” is actually bullying, as SB said above. That’s not going to help anyone’s case; it’s just going to turn people away from the person, the group, and ultimately, the thought process and philosophy themselves.
Thank you for your comment, and welcome to TCC, by the way!
*applause* I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments!
Thank you, Bethany! <3
I think the problem with veganism is that it gets very religious, with concepts of purity and saving yourself and being in the world but not of it. I’m irreligious, and my ethics are very utilitarian – do the biggest amount of good you can, however you can. It looks like the biggest amount of good you can do is to get the big meat eaters to eat meat less frequently and in smaller quantities, and to get them to choose organic, free range meats. The best way to spread the news is by sharing tasty vegan food and then letting things happen naturally.
Don’t be wishy washy about your opinions, but neither should you try to make converts (or worse yet, police them for orthodoxy.) People will give you openings, and you can offer ideas like Meatless Monday or Vegan Before 6. Even if all you do is have 4 friends over for falafel, you’ve saved a couple chickens that night.
Thank you, Sarah! You’re absolutely right, veganism tends to become much more than strictly diet and more into something that is akin to religion… and when it reaches that point, it becomes that much more of a “thing” to defend and proselytize. While I admire the level of commitment and want to change the world, I think they’re going about it the wrong way, much like the fire-and-brimstone Evangelistic crowd. That kind of attitude ends up turning people off rather than encouraging them to try something new.
There are always better choices that people can make, but oftentimes, they start with little steps: Free-range meats, then locally-sourced meats, then less meat, then vegetarian meals more often, then vegan meals more often. And most people will kind of bounce about between all these options, which is fine! The more steps taken in the right direction — whatever “right” may mean to a person! — the better for everyone.
Thanks again for your thoughts, Sarah, and welcome to TCC!
Encouragement like yours has led me to eat a lot less meat. Along with wonderful friends like you and some personal experiences, I am very careful about what meat I do buy and eat when I do. I am a little bit ridiculous about it now, in a good way. If you have ever seen the Portlandia Skit “Is it local?”, that is me (I do live in Portland, OR area too!) I only buy chicken and beef that is free range now and usually at places that have post cards with pictures of the animals on the farm.
A few naysayers have said that organic pasturing uses more resources than conventional, but the vast majority of folks who start eating local free range meat also start eating a lot less meat too–so it really balances out any crap from them. If you are having meat Saturday and no meat the rest of the week, then the meat being more expensive doesn’t really matter. I am blessed to have many restaurants around here with local free range meat so it is pretty easy to keep on track. If I do give in and go to a place like Taco bell, now I just order vegetarian burritos, it just feels better to me and is cheaper.
I had been mostly buying only free range chicken for the last few months, but day before yesterday I was driving side by side with a chicken truck, I was crying in the car for those poor chickens, their little eyes looked so sad compared to the chickens my friends raise for eggs at their homes and the chickens in the photos of the free range farms. These poor chickens were three to a cage grated cage, the wind and dust blowing all over them, their little feet sticking out of the cages which were too short for them to stand in. I had to pass the truck even though I rarely ever pass so I could stop staring into their little eyes and focus on the road. From now on I eat free range meat or I don’t eat meat, that simple.
I don’t plan to be a vegetarian ever. I care most about the life the animals lived was pleasant before they become food–I don’t have any bad feelings about them dying for food if they lived an okay life until then. I know others feel totally differently, and I respect that. But I am proud that even on very limited means I can eat ethically as an omnivore instead of thoughtlessly.
“Every little helps,” that’s how I see it; like you were saying about meatless Mondays… Every time someone has one day without meat, a little less is needed, and one more animal could potentially live to see another day.
My hubby would never become a vegetarian, but he buys his meat locally from reliable sources rather than just popping to the supermarket and getting whatever. Sure, I’d love it if he could be a vegetarian, but his making the effort to eat free range and organic foods is a step in the right direction, so I’m just greatful for that.
Shouldn’t it be the same for everyone? Celebrate the steps people are taking rather than putting them down for not being prepared to take all the steps you have. Like I already said, every little helps!
I would be vegan…if it werent for pork. Its the devils meat. And honey wheat bread is the god of all wheat breads!
But in all seriousness, I can imagine being partly vegan is extremely difficult. Even if your diet is vegan 50% of the time, thats still a good step for attempting it all together. Think about it. If you decide on your own will to give up meat, eggs, dairy, etc., but can really only handle it a few days out of the week then I think thats still pretty good.
Unless I go out to dinner or lunch or breakfast, my home meals are 60% vegetarian. That means 4 out of 7 days a week, roughly, my family and I dont eat meat. And when we do its mostly chicken, turkey or pork. Red meat as a whole is nearly extinct from our diets. Thats not because we want to save a cow. No. Fuck cows. They put holes in our ozone (may or may not be 100% accurate). Its purely a health decision. Obviously, we dont claim to be vegetarians, because were not or plan to be 100%, but its a conscience effort towards a positive step.
However, if someone claims to be 100% vegan and yet they eat honey, well, that goes without saying that theyre a god damned liar! Just kidding. Its bee vomit. Someone is going to jump on a vegan for eating bee vomit? I dont know, sounds crazy. But, its a democracy (for now), people have their own opinions (for now) and you can’t please everyone all the time.
As long as an effort is being made then that should be good enough.
***No animals were harmed during the writing of this comment.***
I forgot about Goat Cheese! Its fucking amazing! I would bathe in it if it werent frowned upon.